I was thinking about it the last little while, and it seems to me that the stock rims are some of the best looking and most unique out there. Well what if I were to get them custom made in a 16 or a 17 inch?
Now to figure out if this interferes with copyright (Toyota design isn't it?), or how much it cost etc....
Any opinions, thoughts, comments?
Has it been done before?

Thx
Cam

too much. don't try it.

hundreds.

thousands.

more.

It can be done. I thought about doing this a long time a go.

You will need a good machine shop. The centers can be copied from billet aluminium, then mounted on hoops to make a three peice wheel.

The cost will be very high. It would be cheaper to get centers from smaller wheels with the right bolt pattern and mount them on hoops you want.

I also like the idea of having a stock looking wheel in a 17" size. I wanted to ask the question, but as a part of my "no expensive projects until the credit card is paid off" mentality, I have forced myself to not bring it up. But since YOU brought it up, I am happy to jump in! :)

I would like to see the rim width increase 1-1.5 inches and use the width to make the "spokes" have more of an angle (if possible).

Like you I don't know where I could even get a price quote, much less all the wrangeling with Toyota corporate.

I know it would be expensive, but I would still like to get an official price quote before I drop the idea.

There are several ways to do this.. and none will give you a ROI.

1st - cut the centers out and have them welded into a 16" rimshell.(Least expensive methods. Might have to sacrifice more than 5 wheels) My shop quoted me $275 a wheel with wheels to sacrifice.

2nd - get someone to 3D the original wheel and modify the image to be 16 or 17. Can get them to machine a billet aluminum puck to either make a 2-piece or 3-piece

3rd - make a mold of the wheel and extend it to 16 or 17 and then make casts. (The most expensive method $10,000 per mold minus materials and time.)

And if you intend to sell it, you will have to stress test it to failure. Meaning destroying one for the purpose of safety. If your wheel fails... ideally you would re-engineer it to pass. Meaning more wheels to destroy. Otherwise the wheels will have to be sold for off-road use only - meaning it might fail under the stresses of everyday driving.

This is NavySupra from the supraforums posting under Cams account.

Your all skipping how easy this really is. The only major problem is that for one set of wheels it is to expensive for a wheel company to retool to produce the wheels. If we are able to provide a cad drawing, hell even a .3ds drawing of the design we want, their CNC machines should have no trouble building these wheels. I'm allready in contact with one company, they have the ability to build the wheels but as of right now they don't think there is enough intrest to bother retooling.

I'm waiting for a reply from them, but if we can get say 10-20 guys that want to jump in on this I'm sure that we could convince them. I'm sure that they will be a realitivly expensive wheel, but I know I'm going to slap a set on my celica, so there is two guys that will put the money out for these wheels.

Let us know. If there is enough intrest I might spend the night starting to model the wheels.

-Shane

I would be interested if it didnt cost one-Miiiiiiiilliiiiiiiiiiion dollars.

:)

The best solution is to build a three peice wheel.

I called one company and they wanted US$115 per 18" inner hoop or outer hoop. US$145 for 19". Thats US$225 or US$290 per corner. Now add the cost of a cast center per corner.

A close friend of mine was working at a place that did this sort of investment castings. He is a metalurgist and he was the person who calculated the prices on the quotes that came in from either drawings or samples. He said it would not cost too much.

Then everyone just finishes them themselves.

PIM buils a three peice wheel in the same style as the original Pantera wheel but in 17" for its customers. Same idea as the person who started this thread suggested. So it has been done by others.

I've always thought that the wheels that came on the Conquest/Starion clones looked a lot like like our wheels. I'd always wondered about putting 5 lug hubs and using a set of those. They had widths from 7 to 9.5 wide.

Yes, those Starion wheels were beautiful. It would work if the offset was +24 or greater. You have to account for thickness of the adapter to change the bolt pattern.

i love the starion wheels, i think they are a 16x8 wheel

I, too, like the look of the Starion/Conquest 16" wheels (from the later models). The info I have on these is the following; wheels sizes in inches, offsets, in parentheses, in mm. They came in two configurations:

16x7 (+18) front [ edit, apparently "8 + )" = "stupid smiley face", that's supposed to be +18 offset]
16x8 (-10)

16x8 (+18) front [ +18 offset ]
16x9 (0) rear

As already mentioned, since hub adapters are at least about an inch (~25mm) thick, these may not work out too well. The only ones that may work would be using a front pair of 16x7s in front and a front pair of 16x8s in the rear; possibly the front 16x8s could work all around on a mk2, but may stick out way too much in front. I'd rather not try this route, though, because what I really like about these wheels is the steep dish of the rear wheels.

Alternatively, I think there were some Aus guys working on a 5-lug conversion, which should leave the hubs close to stock position. I seem to remember that they had either the front or rear worked out with readily available parts, but the other axle used some really rare parts... brain fog won't clear up to let me remember right now.

Anyway, Wheel Collisions and a few other places sell these wheels completely refinished for about $500-700, and they look great. But add to that hub adapters or a 5-lug conversion, and the price gets close to custom wheels anyway.

It's been stated (by TomD) that these wheels aren't too tough and tend to bend a lot, but I haven't seen this myself.

Regards,

Jimi B

Back on to the original topic:

If one were able to get stock-looking 16" or 17" wheels, in staggered widths, for a competitive price, I'd be in for at least one set :]

Regards,

Jimi B

NavySupra posting under Cam again.

The prototype set will weigh in at a hefty $20,000 USD. They say that if we can get enough people together who will actually put the money down on a set, then we'll be able to get the price of the wheels down. I have no idea if it will be a multipeice rim, or just a wheel. That I have no idea of. Custom widths and offsets shouldn't be an issue either.

So I'd like to know if there is some real intrest in this community...

Also 5bolt shouldn't be a problem yet either.

I'll post more info as I get it.

$20,000!! :shock: thats friggin insane!!

Unfortunately, this is a pretty small community. I am guessing you would probably need at least 50 people to commit to something like this. Very tough! The only thing I can think of that has ever been produced in quantities like that.....the LJM strut bar($150+), the CelicaSupra reprint poster ($15-20), not sure about anything else. The rims would be a hell of a lot more expensive!

i'm sticking by the "thousands per set" comment, as before.

NavySupra,

Ignoring the initial prototype costs, how much do they estimate it would cost per rim if they did a large run of them?
$20,000 sounds like a lot, but it isn't that much when it is spread out over many many rims. Anyone who buys a set would want to get 5 rims. If you can get 40 people to buy 5 rims, that would be 200 rims. $20,000 divided over 200 rims is $100 per rim, which would need to be added to the actual cost to produce each rim in the large run.

I have not received a reply as to the cost per set as of yet. Right now I think they are checking to see if the design can be used with one of their current forges, therefore bringing the cost of the wheels down.

The only thing about this community, is if people will actually put the money down when it comes down to it.

I mean sure in theory 50 people will buy these wheels and everything will be great, but I don't know if 50 people will actually drop the cash?

canadian_psyko

I left a message with my friend to get a rough estimate on cost for centers. I will see him tonight when we hit Hess Village and further explore possabilities for such a project.

I want to go with a three peice design for many reasons.

1. Availability of ready made parts (hoops).
2. Custom widths and diameters.
3. If a wheel gets bent then just replace the hoops.
4. I can get the machining done by a friend.

I'd be very interested on what you find out though.

Investment casting makes the cost prohibitive.

Let alone the secondary machining that needs to occur.

Slightly less expensive is wax loss casting. Though
a higher time for finish machining.

CNC fabrication, although more cost effective, would
require a high setup time, and hence cost.

One would require the volume to make it cost effective.

The only alternative is a CNC center, that looks like the factory wheel
or BBS variety.

As James indicated, welding to a hoop, or mounting to rim halves
has a noticeable exposure to defect errors.

And these wheels would have zero warranty.

The only pragmatic option is to find a CNC wheel fabricator
that would be willing to make them. That's going to be tough
as they will require enough production to make it worthwhile.

And probably sold as for racing use only, to avoid warranty.

It's an expensive proposition all around.

Okay my friend said that his old employer would charge around CAN$300-$400/finished wheel. This however did not include the cost of the mold which would run thousands.

The problem lies in getting a true round outer edge and machining it.

He did say that casting a center for a three peice wheel would be considerably cheaper. Though the machining afterwards would be a lot, I could get that done at work.

We may take a sample center to a foundry and see what they say.

My father could have done the casting if we still lived in England.

I wonder if getting it done overseas in the far east would make it cheaper?

I wonder if getting it done overseas in the far east would make it cheaper?

Think about the shipping costs. We would have to have a stock pile of wheels, otherwise shipping one set at a time would be cost prohibitive.

I have not received a reply back as of yet, BUT it is the weekend.

I guess another problem is finding a place that can deal with such a large wheel diameter.

I took one of my unfinished 18 inch hoops to work to see if I could get the centers cut out and no go. The diameter of the hoop was just too large for the machine shop equipment there. They deal with mostly small parts. I'll have to get it done at a shop with a water cutter and that means more money. I'll just store the parts for now, I don't really have the need for any more wheels at the moment anyway.

In the end it will be cheaper to get something like Braids than a true custom wheels styled like the factory MK2 wheel.

Ok, for all of you who were seriously interested in this idea, heres another, much more realistic suggestion. Not that I'm a big fan of the original idea, but if you must, this is the best way to do it. Simply get a set of these...

http://www.pbase.com/image/20658007

They're basiclly supra rims with a 5th spoke, and they come in 16x7 up front, 16x8 in the rear, on 86 to 89 Mitsu Starions. Yes they are 5 bolt. They come in 114.3 x 5. These wheels have around a +20 offset. You can run an 8 inch rim with up to a -20 offset on the rear of our cars, and an 8 inch rim with up to a 0 offset on the front. That means you need a up to a 40mm wheel adapter on the rear and around a 20 on the front. Cheap easy and accesable. Buda bing, buda boom, 16 inch supra wheels, in a sweet size to boot. (even better if you can find two rear pairs).

the image is broken!

damn it, that site is so flaky (www.26liter.us ), horrible server. I stole the pic and hosted it on my own site, link fixed.

I don't know if anyone has looked into this but if people want the Starion wheels why not just have a wheel shop fill and redrill the bolt holes so no adapter is needed. That way you get nice wheels with close to the correct offset and the correct bolt pattern. Also, does anyone know if the hub size is compatible with our cars?

I don't know if anyone has looked into this but if people want the Starion wheels why not just have a wheel shop fill and redrill the bolt holes so no adapter is needed. That way you get nice wheels with close to the correct offset and the correct bolt pattern. Also, does anyone know if the hub size is compatible with our cars?

guys & gals,

supradudes suggestion makes the most sense to me. think about it: when the mk2 was born, 14x7 was a fairly radical wheel. even ferarris of that day wore 15's. nowdays, many sports compacts come from the factory with 17's and more. my point is, some of our cars are 20+ years old and IMHO the look of some of the current wheels with fwd offsets clash with the lines of our cars. using the 16x7 or 8 starion wheels would give us the best of both worlds; we'd keep the balance of the original design and get access to better rubber than the 14's give us. i already got my 245/45x16 yoko's picked out!

does anyone know enough about whether filling and redrilling wheels is feasible in terms of cost, strength, and durability? maybe we could do a group "buy" to test the idea. :lol:

As I said earlier the Starion wheels also came in 8 1/2 and 9 1/2. The answer about redrilling is yes it is cheap considering the cost of new wheels but I wouldn't recomend racing or anything other than normal driving. That's what a wheel shop told me when I was going to get some OZ's redrilled.

I don't know the exact offsets that that starions came in, but a site I found said they were around +20 and thats about what they look like to me. A 7 inch wheel with a +20 offset on the front is far from ideal on our cars, an 8 inch rim with +20 is even less so in the rear. I'm running 8 inch rims in the rear with a +17 offset, and for the first time ever, I've got wheels that are actually flush with the fender flares in the rear. 20mms is wheel adapter teritory. Adapters are cheap and plentiful, there are many suppliers for them and they're perfectly safe if made well. A 2 cm adapater should be just fine for the front, I'd go with a 3.5 cm one in the rear. If you found yourself a couple pairs of the rears redrilling the front ones might be an option, but I don't know if the design of the wheel would allow it, and it would look bad too. The only real problem with this whole idea is finding a set of these wheels. They pretty much don't exist up here in Canada, not sure what the availablity is like for them in the states.

Around here they are much more rare than a mk2, might see a couple in a year of driving.

See the link below for a continuation of this topic with greater detail.

http://www.CelicaSupra.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5530&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

as i posted in another thread similar to this, why not contact a wheel mfg like boyd's and see what it would cost to have 17's made like stockers. they can cnc the centers then weld them into the wheel hoops for a 2 peice design. would look much more stock then a 3 peice. also, they keep the hoops in stock. i would like to see stockers in 17x7 0 offset front and 17x9 +10mm offset rear. i think that would look the best as far as the flares being filled evenly.

I think this idea needs to be reintroduced.. I can sit on a nice wheel that is cheap, that I like alot. I'd much rather have a set of 16' stocks. Maybe we should check in with some more shops its been about 5 years since this thread was started. Much more technology now especially with cnc machines tthey have just blown up in the automotive industry. I think we should do a few tours of the city and see what we can get.

rsdeo, I'm in Oakville and maybe you and I should make a run through speers rd and see what we can get theres a bunch of automotive places. If anyone know the Castrol Car thats been touring all the autoshows. (green with I think gold rims) Those rims were created, mounted and fitted on Speers Road in the town I live in. So maybe we run over there we can introduce them to our site, get a list of people that want in and see what we can do. I'm sure we can get some people now that want them. Get some colors in there (chrome, gunmetal, black, black with lip, gunmetal with lip etc.) Then there will be tires for us everywhere, because now all the car companies are whippping out 16,17,18 inch rims on their cars.

I just dont think this idea will work. As has been said in the pass, many mk2 drivers are super excited about this idea, but all you hear is silence when its time to pony up the 1500+(and im being very conservative) dollars for a set of custom wheels.

I think it is worth a try.. go on a saturday for a cruise some of the local supra guys. Run down the street get some quotes ask questions get a list of this and that then relay it to you other guys. The car would look freakin' amazing if we could get. I also have a very unique design for a wheel.. hell I'm doing a co-op for school, I may be able to get in there and help with production. There is a very postive vibe in our town for automotive creations. We had part of that Castrol car designed, ford plant, the town has plenty of money (3rd richest in canada I think) so its possible to get a group buy going on.

If not I think we should get a few teams from Celicasupra.com and get this contest won, http://www.msrwheels.com/contest.cfm have a few 16 inch stock rims designed.Think of that you win $1000 plus a set of your rims.. and maybe they going into production.

If rsdeo is down, I'd love to go and TRY, what isn't worth a try.

Go for it. I'm just telling you facts. Custom wheels are expensive, especially in super low volumes.

You need to learn how to search. Making bigger oem style rims has been discussed. There are also cheap rims out there that fit Supras.

So he searched... and brought a dead thread back to life expecting a different answer.

:faint:

Look Supra Ev: Sorry the answer was not what you're looking for in the other thread. But trying to revive this thread to get a different answer? :dead hors

Didn't you complain in the other thread about buying a set of wheels that cost more than the car?

Damn, I didn't know that these were that expensive.. I'd have to check into some things, but if you ever look through the PAS magazines and stuff like that there are always rims similar for this for like 100-200 a piece, yeah probably not the greatest thing ever, but why spend either A) more than your car is worth or close to it or B) spend that much money on rims, when something else will break most likely soon enough that will need replacing.. so hmm nice rims cheap cost or maybe some decked out rims big cost, screwed. I really like these rims but I really don't want to pay more than I bought my car for. Good luck for everyone who wants to drop $2gs plus.

Seriously: Do you have $3000 to spend on wheels? Do you have at least 20 friends that can prepay $3000 (plus or minus a $1000 each for a set of wheels? If so, we can proceed with the 3-piece 17" OEM look alikes. And keep in mind the $3000 is not a guaranteed price.

If you feel otherwise, why don't you go ahead and do the research, including sizes, quantities, pricing, materials, colors, and lead time (including design, testing and assembly). And when you get all of that together, get back to us with that information. Set up a group buy with P-Type OEM-styled 16" wheels for <$1000 then you can be our hero. Deal?


local bakery..not anymore told my manager to eff off cause he said the supra was a geezer car.

BTW: Where are you co-oping again?

Ok, ok won't try. Just like to see something big for these cars, look what we got from the forums and everything. Its amazing, look what all of our members have self designed and built, we got strut bars, camber plates, all sorts or intake designs, our clothing line. We probably could do it, then think of what we would be, our own cs.com rim? Doubt any other forum has done that. I was just trying to get somewhere, as for costs, well, if I were working on it, obviously I would pay that much, to have the creation status under my name along with whoever helps me? Hell yeah I'd pay $3000 I've already belted out about 5 grand to buy the car, the parts, and another 3600 insurance. So not like I can't, I have 3 summer jobs, and rims is a thing I'm interested in. So yeah, kinda got in some shit cause I like to protect my shit, and when somebody chirps my supra (especially when they have nothing anywhere close to better) words slip out.. he told me to go fuckin do this or fuck that or fuck! when he screws up.

As for the co-op not sure if you were being sarcastic. That was my job, not a co-op, I'm getting placed somewhere for co-op next year. Placing me at the Ford Repair shop, only place that my buddy and I can both get into. So sorry for trying to open something up.

You almost got fired by a bakery manager because the "supra is a geezer car." Ouch. That hurts us older guys.

Keep us posted Supra ev! I wanna hear results!


Matt

You almost got fired by a bakery manager because the "supra is a geezer car." Ouch. That hurts us older guys.

hah yeahhh and he drives a gmc jimmy and a cavalier I think.. he's got nothing to say to the supra. Whatever everything is straightened out, I was gonna quit but I'm gonna stick around for a little longer.

I'll keep you guys posted, at least we got some people interested. I hope to go get some research done this weekend or next, just a busy time with school finishing up. I will definetly keep you posted.

Leave any color ideas I was thinking:
Gun Metal
Black
Black/Gun Metal (W machined lip)
I'd like to see chrome but again with this whole project it would be expensive. Worst comes to worst, once you get the rim, you can have it locally chromed.
I was also thinking of a more personal design. I'll post later, I'm going to see what it looks like on the photoshop. But as a hint, it'd be most likely called "Cancer" I'll post tonight about it, with the story.