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1983 Supra Air Condition (w/pics)

16K views 42 replies 15 participants last post by  '82supra 
#1 ·
I'd like to get mine working again for now.
My current system is empty as far as I can tell.

I've done a search here and read as much web info as I could. I've found out a bit and I thought I'd check with any of you who might have suggestions for me. Or you could just tell me I'm insane.

Keep in mind that I know next to nothing about all this really. I am just going on what I've read. I feel like a parrot, just squawking what I've heard :)

I do not plan to upgrade any components, my goal was to just charge the current setup and see what happens. with that in mind a 12r to ES-12a seemed like a good solution. Here is what the site says;
  • no retro fitting needed
  • Completely compatible with all the materials, hoses, O-rings, seals and oils (mineral or synthetic) in all systems
  • 6 oz. of Enviro-Safe is equivalent to 18 oz. of R-12 or 16 oz. of R-134a. It is colder than either R-12 or 134a and has much larger molecules that are less likely to leak.

I was going to try the 'Industrial 12a'.
It is a slightly higher pressure product and may be charged into a medium vac, a shallow vac or even zero vac. That makes it virtually mistake-proof, unless you over-charge the system.
http://autorefrigerants.com/co00033.htm

Here is the charge hose they sell with a R12 fitting. It should work with the standard connection to your compressor. No need to change the fittings which I thought was great, it will work with the standard R12 setup.



Here is the procedure as far as I can understand it....

1. Check for leaks or defective components. Check that the compressor has proper amount of lubricant.

2. If desired, pull a vacuum. No more than 10", ES-12a does not become caustic if some moisture is present.Charging under a high vacuum can result in an overcharge. Any overcharge may cause loss of cooling efficiency.

3.Connect gauge and hose with engine off
3a.Connect to low-pressure side of compressor. Not sure about which one this is, I would guess the suction hose side is the low?



3.b. Installs as a liquid, they say to invert the can to do so and that it will NOT harm the compressor.​
3c.Establish Flow. After an intial minimum charge is achieved, start engine and set ac to high. Continue to ad to achieve proper pressure level to manufacturer's specifications. (14 psi, 1.4lbs to 1.7lbs, FOR THE SUPRA?)​
3d. DO NOT OVERCHARGE, exceeding 60 psig on the low side may damage compressor​
3.e Verify pressure and temperatures are correct . Shut of engine, disconnect hose and gauge, install service port caps
note: If a system has been overcharged or has a leak and must be recharged, completely evacuate the system using reclaiming equipment (not recycling equipment) and start the charging procedure over.​

I know this is boring stuff. sorry. I just thought I'd check and see if I have the right idea or if I should go play with my UFO ....

2 cans plus charge hose and shipping $47.00 dollars, seemed to be a resonable cost for a try and see.
 
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#2 ·
Just a recommendation, see if the refrigerant you are getting also has a can with dye added to it for detection of leaks. If your system is empty, it likely has a leak somewhere and the dye helped me to find the leak. I had a leak at one of the hose fittings under the hood and the expansion valve at the evaporator.
 
#6 ·
The dye sounds like a good idea. I'm not sure which unit is the evaporator? Yeah I do feel dumb. The chart from the manual may show or list it but it's in gobbledegook which I don't read very well. :)
 
#3 ·
enviro-safe is great. My sys had missing hose for many years.No vac of sys, I just put on hose charged w envir safe and cold air. Went 2 yrs no recharge. I did add a/c oil to sys. Now usen industrial enviro-safe, gettn 32 out of vents on a 85 day. Use about 1.5 cans or you will be overfilling.
 
#5 ·
My leak was at the receiver/ dryer assembly sight glass. Removed the line to replace the dryer, and noticed the threads in the lines fitting were trashed in the process. So now I need a dryer, line, and a charge.
 
#7 ·
since our cars are old, and so are the mechanics of the a/c system, i would conduct a dye test first, and then if your funds allow for it, purchase a new setup. (if funds allow for it)
i recently purchased from this guy off ebay, his feedback is awesome and i did my research on the part numbers for the compressors , plus it comes with oil, o-rings, and drier too!

here is the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TOYO...-A-C-COMPRESSOR-NEW-KIT_W0QQitemZ220436980287

i say that's not bad for the price, and its just one option, hope you were able to find a solution dude!
 
#9 ·
yes, i will be switching to the new system, since the older stuff is pretty toxic, and cost a bit more for the recharge. down here in houston, its either hot, or hotter...and i have leather, so with that in mind, i get out of my car and i'm as sweaty as my balls...(sorry for the visual)
i have plans down the future for myself and my car, but i currently live, build, save, spend, in the present, and within my means.
 
#10 ·
I used e12 on two of my supra's in the last month. One car: great results with no prep or preliminary work(my son's minty 85). The other (my only-driver '84) didn't get done due to bad gauges and stupidity on my part. My harbor freight gauges were leaking at an o ring, and I had screwy readings and was letting the gas escape! I let my dad's shop *at his insistence* check it out in KY last week and they vented the small amount of e12 and charged it with 134 and it's working well, oddly enough. Funny, bacause I have ranted about how poor 134 works in our systems, but I will keep the 134 for now.

If you've got leaks detected with soapy water, just replace the o rings (with green one's in a pack/ kit) at all of the visible joints and connections. It's not a tough job. Receiver drier replacement seems to be optional with e12, not a must.

You've done good research. If your system is tight and compressor is good, e12 will do great. As for the old gas, if you have r12 left you should get it recovered. I wouldn't recover the 134 if any is left.

The e-12 COMES with red dye in it, but not the florescent kind for black lights (I think). I got the red dye all over me because my gauges had the bad o ring. It is also very oily to the touch and seems to have a lot of lube in it, although that's not listed on the can, which is odd.
I think it's convenient that you got a fill tube with r12 connector! You'll be able to attach straight to the low side. You have two ports to choose from. The r134 conversion fittings are sometimes tricky and the supra doesn't leave a lot of room for them.

I've always thought the low pressure port is best used under the air intake tube on pass. side, but the one on the compressor (low pressure or suction side) is an option, but don't introduce liquid into the compressor pistons. You'll break em. At least that's what they say. Also, don't introduce e12 into the high pressure side with motor running. It'll explode your hose, they say. But you can do that if it's not running, I think. If you do it at the compressor low side with engine on, I'd do right side up can. I had bad luck getting the e12 to enter into the other low side port at intake last week on one car only, but I would start there. If no luck getting the last amount in, you can move to suction port on compressor. I think I should have set the can in hot water during the end of the charge process. I'm not sure if i just quit too soon because my Harbor Freight gauges had a bad o right and were giving screwy/scary readings. I'm wondering if my troubles are the reason the envirosafe always seems to suggest introducing e12 liquid or upside down. But again, don't do this at the compressor, only over at the pass side.

I was reduced to using the small diy hose like you have and got good results

Just charge it and see what happens is my suggestion.

The amount of e12 you add is less than r 12 (only 33%) but I'm not sure how much less than 134. Maybe 2 cans. You can wait till it gets cold and stop for a while and test. Overfilling reduces cooling.

I've got a ton of ac stories as of late, but I'll hold back. They can be very frustrating.
 
#12 ·
right now out there are some many shops, they will check your system almost for free, the main thing before waste any freon, is vacuum the system, if it holds vacuum for a while you might not have any leak, then add freon + dye, letting run it for 5 mintes to allow the dye go thru the system, then use UV light + yellow googles, if u dont see nothing obvious in the hoses, compressor and condenser, use a sniffer to test the evaporator, usually off the vents inside the car or the vent out off the evaporator case.

i have a leak at the condenser and the compressor, i work in a ac + radiator warehouse and i get a good deal.

johnny q had a good deal too, most of the time this compressor are running $250 or more without dryer, i got my condenser for $100, was made for American Condenser and they dont have it in stock, they made one for me, took them 3 days, and now im very happy with it.

i hope this will help.
 
#13 ·
one more small step figured out.

So thanks to your helpful input I've located the fill port on the low (suctions hose) side near the evaporator. This input fitting is a standard quick connect fitting. Sorry no pic

You may be groaning and saying...yeah, duh..buy ...this is all new to me so I'm just happy to figure out one more piece of my A/C puzzle.

I have a R13a recharge hose with a quick connect hose. It fits on this low line port plus it has a gauge on the line.....so I should be able to use it to fill with the ES-12 and the Oil. This means I did not order a recharge hose...saved some money there.

I'm trying to spend as little as possible, do everything I can to do this my self. It is not a complex system, just tedious. Since it doesn't work now I really am not worried about messing it up.

I love the idea of a free system check. I'll find a shop and do so for this week

I'll keep you updated.
 
#15 ·
im glad we were all able to help!!! if i find any other good deals (since im a ebayer, seller/buyer) i'll keep updating, and posting. its worth the extra effort to keep these rare old school cars up and running, but its also rewarding to own a piece of car history, and drive something no one has. :)
 
#16 · (Edited)
I asked a refrigeration tech at work about getting my a/c working, and he asked...
What year is it (86)
Any leaks (yes dryer and line are bad).
Told me to replace the dryer and the line and charge with R134 that has oil added (1 can, and the rest without oil).

Is it really that simple?
 
#17 ·
A/C switch not working?

The switch to turn on the A/C seems to have a problem, I saw the light come on once. Then not again, it seems to not be working right. I don't hear the compressor come on no matter which position the switch is in. So I'll have to sort this out before I can proceed.

The system is holding presure with no apparent leaks. May be a bad switch, compressor or something I've not yet sorted out.

It's never simple or easy.

The good news is my garage workshop got done this weekend. I can now find things and have a strong workbench to build and repair on.
 
#19 ·
The switch to turn on the A/C seems to have a problem, I saw the light come on once. Then not again, it seems to not be working right. I don't hear the compressor come on no matter which position the switch is in. So I'll have to sort this out before I can proceed.
While it could be the switch (is it plugged in behind the radio bezel? Often gets unplugged when putting in a new stereo), there are several possible other causes. I can think of:
- Blown fuse (located in the passenger side kick panel - have to remove the interior piece)
- Compressor clutch not plugged in - white connection near the top of the compressor
- Low pressure in AC system
 
#20 ·
Further Work Needed

Here is the update,

Tested the system, it holds presure

A/C Switch, dead, it don't work no more

Compressor, Dead, sent power to it diretly, no dice

So...

Buy new Compressor, Drier, ES12a, Oil, Switch.

I'm guessing that Toyota may still have this A/C dash switch? If you know let me know.

Thanks all
 
#21 ·
Switch Needed....


Moving forward on the bring back the a/c from the dead.....

Ordered compressor and drier. Thanks for your ebay link :) Should be an easy replacement.

The switch may give me a bit of trouble. I've thought about checking with the local wrecking yard. Also I wondered if an electronics shop my be able to match that type of switch. Just thinking.

Toyota is looking now for me. I'll call them back if I don't hear from them soon. They want $70.00 for the part IF they have it.

Money spent so far, $30.00 ES 12a , $150.00 Compressor and Drier.

ongoing total: $180.00, w/out tx and ship.
 
#22 ·
Moving forward on the bring back the a/c from the dead.....

Ordered compressor and drier. Thanks for your ebay link :) Should be an easy replacement.

The switch may give me a bit of trouble. I've thought about checking with the local wrecking yard. Also I wondered if an electronics shop my be able to match that type of switch. Just thinking.

Toyota is looking now for me. I'll call them back if I don't hear from them soon. They want $70.00 for the part IF they have it.

Money spent so far, $30.00 ES 12a , $150.00 Compressor and Drier.

ongoing total: $180.00, w/out tx and ship.
Just curious...when you removed the old dryer, and lines, were the fittings threads still in good condition?
As I stated earlier, when I removed the line from my dryer, the threads in both fittings were trashed. Someone said they may have been cross threaded when installed. I could see that if it were only one fitting...but both :screwy:
and if they were both cross threaded...I don't see how it would have held a charge.
 
#23 ·
My girlfriend looked at me the other day while we were on a 30 minute drive (about 10 minutes in) and it was HOT. She looked over and said, "I wish you'd get your A/C fixed."

She gave me the sad face look, so yea, tomorrow, I'm gonna mess with the A/C. It didn't work when I bought the car, and I immediately yanked the belt off haha. Will not call the previous owner, haven't spoken to him in a year, no need to.

I'll put the belt back on, check the sight flow, make sure the A/C clutch is working. If it' requires a lot of work to fix, I won't be in a rush to fix it since I don't care for the A/C, and she knows this. I don't like riding in a car with the windows up, it's just me.

Windows down FTW.
 
#24 ·
I hear ya brother, I'm the same way. I hate a/c and love the moon roof rolled back and the fresh air blowing around me as I cruise down the highway.

But......

After taking the GF and mom for drives on very hot days... AND getting THE Look....well yeah I could see fixing it if it didn't cost too much.

Supradad hooked me up with a very good price on a a/c switch...thanks SD!

I've not yet replaced the compressor and drier so I've no idea what I'll find once I do. It's a bit scary to think about but I'll hope for the best and expect the worst.
 
#35 ·
Maybe in the US, dunno, but 12a is a common OTC item in most auto parts stores (including Canadian Tire). I just bought some today ($54 DIY kit). This just after coming from the local Toyota dealer hoping to get sound advice, lol, they said it's not available in Canada :bs:. They're now definitely out of the loop when it comes to servicing our vehicles...except for unavailable parts that I can't source here, that's the last time I go back to Toyota! :inout7xr:

No evac., no oil, no dye - gonna wing it, maybe I'll get lucky first time round, since there was still some pressure in the system, 'cuz when I opened the low side service cap it popped.

CS.com is definitely the best source for MkII's anywhere IMO!!
 
#26 ·
Take all of my advice with a grain of salt, as I am a do-it-yourself ac person who spent many hours reading the ac forums. I am going by memory.

ES12: It's something you have to mail order. Some states just don't allow it to be sold.

The compressor change is no problem. Don't totally overtighten and ruin your new green ac o rings. Snug them down with a little lubricant on them. Won't hurt to buy a bottle of liquid lube so you can lubricate o rings and put about 3 oz of lube into the intake port of the compressor. If you are getting a drier, put 2 or 3 oz in it also. Both are prolly dry and w/o lubricant.

Again, the old tale about PAG oil, the lube used in r12 system, and ester oil, the lube used in new 134 systems not being compatible and leading to sludging is always out there. You might consider researching and deciding which to use. I have mixed newer ester with no problem, but there is even a third type of lubricant. The main issue, I guess, was that the pag wouldn't be picked up and circulated by the new 134 conversion gas and would lay in the low parts of the system, not doing its job. Turn your compressor upside down and rotate it to see if anything comes out. I doubt it has any.

As far as pulling a vacuum: it wouldn't hurt to pull one to evaporate any liquid or possibly harmful substances that could be "boiled off" by the vacuum before charging. With es12, it's not a deal breaker. The es12 supposedly doesn't care / or like a vacuum before being introduced, so it wouldn't matter whether you have one before you charge. The holding of a vacuum is a good test of the systems tightness also. I have adapted by grill's propane tank for pressure testing (it runs with it too!), so it's easier for me to find leaks with soapy water.

Best thing you can do for your system's fittings and o rings is to clean the flares with a really fine grain sandpaper or emery cloth and lubricate tehm. Takes no time at all and is the only thing you need to do.

Keep us posted!
 
#27 ·
The ES 12 website says it must be added as a liquid, (invert the can while you are adding it). They are pretty specific about that. Just something to keep in mind if you are going to try it. My system had the 134 nipples on it already on the high and low lines.

I connected to the compressor and while the pulley turns it will not engage with power supplied to the unit. So I have a new one on the way.

The new one was from ebay and comes with new rings, oil, drier plus the compressor for 150.00 buy it now price.

I'm going to charge the system with the ES 12a (the industrial version of ES12) and I'll let you know how well it cools.

I've read good and bad about the es-12a. I'd really like to try it, but I've only been able to find it online. Is there a reason the parts stores don't have it?
I've only read online about using ES 12a but I didn't find anything negitive about it. What did you read that gave you a bad report?
 
#28 ·
All that I've read that is bad is a couple of reviews from people that have used the es-12a and it didn't get as cold as they thought it would. Not really any horror stories or very bad things. I'm probably going to try it because the 134 didn't get as cold as the r12 did.
 
#29 ·
just to update, i've installed the a/c system kit from ebay, and it blows awesomely cold!!!!
it came with a reman'd nippon-denso compressor, oil, o-rings, drier.
my mechanic had to take my lines to a machine shop for them to fabricate new lines, and along with putting in a new electric a/c fan, and all i can say, is, WOW!!!!
no more complaints from the gf, er..fiancee!
 
#30 ·
Congrats!! I'm so glad to hear you are blowing cold. Fiancee? nice. Is that recent? I don't mean to be a snoop but I like to hear good news .....makes for a nice change :)

I've ordered that same compressor and drier. I don't think my lines are bad ...but we shall see. I'll keep you posted on it as I get things installed and charged.
 
#31 ·
yup, its pretty recent. she's 24, and i'm 27....not a bad age i guess, i'm done with college, working, and she's almost done too. and no, don't worry about the snoopy stuff, i don't mind.we also have a child on the way, so things are looking good.
i'm kinda pump to see how the child will come out...im mixed, (cambodian, chinese, and vietnemese) and she, german and spanish.
anywho, yeah, im glad to have a supra, that's been rebuilt, a/c system reworked and functionally, but i'm looking at rebuilding my differential, with the rabidchimp kit, plus the weir performance solid spacer/crush sleeve.
 
#32 ·
This is an A/C thread so I will ask here. My A/C doesn't work. I reattached the belt, and clutch didn't engage. It didn't engage cause the system is completely empty. I see ANYTHING in the sight flow, not even bubbles or whatever you're supposed to see when it's low. It's just empty.

The system should still be discharged before adding new refrigerant correct?

I have...never...messed with A/C so this will be my first, and if all else fails it'll be just like it is now, not working haha.

If I fix it the girl is a little more comfortable in the car, if not oh well she'll be aight.
 
#33 ·
A/C no workee..

MUST find leak.Must replace reciever/dryer. System has had no charge and is contaminated.Not in that order.Charge system with dye. Find leak.Compressor will not cycle w/no pressure.(low pressure switch).Seek professional help after you give up.Diagnostics is the most difficult of automotive work.Any one can teach a chimpanzee to screw in a bolt. I have those at work. #1: Diagnose problem.#2:figure out what is needed to repair(parts,chemicals,custom work,availability) #3: decide what $$$ you want to spend to keep yourself happy. Decide.I'm not an expert.See Jim's Air conditioning thread for more info,please.He has MOST of the answers.Trust him. Dave in Seattle.
 
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